12/31/05
2/9/06
See bottom of page for More OTC heresy...
Proverbs 25:18 A man that bears false witness against his
neighbor Is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.
Comments on this verse :
Such a man is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow; that is, to his
neighbour, against whom he bears false witness; and, by so doing, he
mauls his fame, his credit, character, and reputation; and, as with a
sword, takes away his life; and against whom there is no more guarding
than against a sharp arrow, that comes from afar, suddenly and swiftly.
John Gill
A false testimony is every thing that is dangerous; it is a maul (or
club to knock a man's brains out with), a flail, which there is no
fence against; it is a sword to wound near at hand and a sharp arrow to
wound at a distance; we have therefore need to pray, Deliver my soul, O
Lord! from lying lips,; Matthew Henry
18 A hammer, and a sword, and a sharp arrow -
A man that beareth false witness against his
neighbour.
An emblematic, or, as we might also say, an iconological proverb; for
18a is a quodlibet of instruments of murder, and 18b is the
subscription under it: that which these weapons of murder accomplish,
is done to his neighbour by a man who bears false witness against him -
he ruins his estate, takes away his honour, but yet more: he murders
him, at one time more grossly, at another time with more refinement; at
one time slowly, at another time more quickly. Keil &
Delitzsch.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ordinarily I would not do what I must do in this article. The purpose
of my web site is to propagate truth, which necessitates pointing out
that which is against the truth and even naming names of people who go
about spreading false doctrine to the detriment of men's souls and the
truth. I never intended for my site to become a war zone of
incessant "he said-you said" battles. Such a practice is not well
pleasing to God at all. However, a situation has come about that is
indicative of the verse at the head of this piece. A man by the name of
Marc Carpenter has posted material to his web site which not only bears
false witness against me but puts on display a former sin of which I
have long since repented.
Yet this man insists on putting my sin, which God has put away, on
display for all to see. He uses that sin in an attempt to make a
case that I was not saved when
I engaged in it. His case is completely without any evidence
from the Scriptures and amounts to nothing more than a subjective
judgment based on his own personal opinion. Such judgment is an
unrighteous judgment and is against the words of the Son of God who
commands His people to judge ~righteous~ judgment. Of course he tries
to
make a case that his judgment is Biblical but his case is built on a
house of sand and it is my purpose to demonstrate that here. It is my
hope that he will recognize his ungodly wickedness and repent. It is
also my hope that perhaps there might be someone else who has been
taken in, or bewitched, or deceived by this man's false doctrine and
that in reading this you will see him and his doctrine for what they
are.
First is the issue of his bearing false witness against me. On his
sight he says this about me;
"And finally,
Kirby also believes that an unregenerate person can believe the
true gospel, thus denying total depravity."
His statement that I am "denying total depravity" is not true at all.
He bases this on my article Dead or Alive in
which I demonstrate with plenty of Biblical evidence that an
unregenerate person can indeed believe the true gospel. But even if my
whole paper were in error, which to this day no one has shown such to
be the case, the pronouncement that I "deny total depravity" is still
false.
I in no way deny the Biblical doctrine of man's depravity. All you need
to do is read my papers and you will easily see that. So even if I am
wrong in my doctrine, Mr Carpenter is still speaking a lie about me and
he needs to recognize that sin and repent of it. And anybody who has
any doings with this man needs to recognize that he is now in sin and
if he does not repent you must have nothing to do with him. If you
continue to fellowship & give ear to this man you are sharing in
his wicked practice! Neither should you give heed to anything he says
on his web site because it is most evident that Marc Carpenter is a man
that is given to lying when it suits his purpose.
Moreover, when I present the Biblical evidence to him showing
unregenerates can believe the gospel he makes absolutely no attempt to
address that evidence. Instead he simply insists that I am denying
total depravity and runs away! To demonstrate;
Mr. Carpenter said this to me..
"I still believe you are denying total depravity
when you
say that an unregenerate person can believe the gospel. "
To such I responded;
Then so was Jesus Christ Marc.
Luke 8:13 And those on the rock are those who, when they hear,
receive the Word with joy;
and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time of
trial draw back.
Instead of making any attempt to at least address the verse he answered;
"I stand firm in my convictions. Call me what you will".
Whatever 'convictions' Mr Carpenter is 'standing firm' on they are
certainly not founded on the word of God. In order for him to make a
~righteous~ judgment he must address my paper and demonstrate from the
Bible that what I say is in error. I in fact have invited him to
do so
stating that if he were successful I would gladly repent and remove my
paper from the web, but he has not done so. Until he does that his
belief that I am 'denying total depravity' is just his own personal
opinion, which is an unrighteous judgment. His view that the
unregenerate cannot believe the truth amounts to calling the Son of
God a liar because Jesus Christ said... they on the rock ~believed~. Mr
Carpenter can't handle the pressure of the truth of Scripture so he
conveniently ignores it and continues to level his false charge against
me. His followers agree with Mr Carpenter in denying Scripture and
contradicting the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. For example, Andrew
Bain responds;
"The rocky soil does outwardly "with joy" receive the Word, and it
seems that they believe for a time. But they really do not understand."
Here Andrew Bain changes the word of God and adds to the words of the
Lord Jesus
Christ by saying "it ~seems~ that they believe for a time"
implying that they really did not believe. But you see folks that's not
what the Son of God said. He said they believed, not "seemed" to
believe. This is an outright denial of verbal inspiration and is
nothing less than an attack on the word of God.
Chris Duncan, another follower of Mr Carpenter, engages in the
same practice of changing the word of God and denying Scripture. He
says;
"The unregenerate elect cannot believe the gospel unless the Father
draw them. And when the Father draws them, all the elect will
infallibly be raised up on the last day by the Son (John 6:44)."
But Jesus Christ says;
And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the Word
with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time
of trial draw back. Luke 8:13
It is entirely possible for an "unregenerate elect" to believe for a
time, draw back, and then later come to true, saving belief in the
gospel. More;
Chris: "The unregenerate reprobate cannot believe the gospel, contrary
to what
JimK says. For it is the purpose of God to harden them by means of the
gospel (Isaiah 6:9-12; Mathew 13:13-15; Mark 4:11-12; 2 Corinthians
2:14-16)."
Chris says "the unregenerate reprobate cannot believe the gospel"...
but
Jesus Christ said he not only can but does.
Though it is indeed God's purpose to harden the reprobate, it does not
follow from that premise that 'The unregenerate reprobate cannot
believe the gospel'. Chris needs to show from Scripture,
that 'The unregenerate reprobate cannot
believe the gospel'. Otherwise he joins Mr Bain in denying
verbal inspiration. Chris says;
"the "temporary faith" of the stony ground hearer is not belief at all."
But you see folks.. Jesus Christ said that it was. So here again
Chris is contradicting the words of the Son of God! More...
Chris: "Remember immediate context. Remember the "analogy of faith."
Remember
that Scripture interprets Scripture. Remember that "the infallible rule
of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore,
when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture
(which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by
other places that speak more clearly."
Yet this is exactly what Mr Duncan is in violation of. In every place
where he tries to say the unregenerate cannot believe, he violates
this principle by denying the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who said
that they can and do believe. More...
Chris: "Only God's elect believe the gospel (Titus 1:1).
The stony ground hearer is not one of God's elect.
Therefore the stony ground hearer does not believe the gospel."
This is and invalid argument. Titus 1:1 does not say "~Only~ God's
elect believe the gospel." If it did we would have a contradiction with
the words of Messiah in Luke 8:13 and elsewhere. Moreover Chris
engages in unBiblical speculation by pronouncing the 'stony ground
hearer' to be a reprobate when he says he is "not one of God's elect".
How does he know that? Is it not possible for a stony ground hearer to
eventually come to a true saving belief in the gospel? More;
Chris: "Notice here in John 8:30-37 that the Jews "believed." But these
"believers" sought to kill Jesus, because His word had no place in
them. The "belief" of the Jews was not belief at all. It was just an
empty hypocritical profession. And when Jesus ripped off the mask,
they sought to kill Him."
Chris says "it was ~not~ belief at all." But again Jesus
Christ said it was right in the very passage he cites! Notice..
30 As He spoke these words, many believed upon Him.
31 Then Jesus said to the Jews *who believed on
Him,* ... If you continue in My word, you are My disciples
indeed.
Jesus said to "those Jews which -believed- on Him"; True, He did
rip off the mask and when He did they *stopped* believing on Him; IOW
they 'fell away'. This is in perfect harmony with the parable of the
sower. Here again Chris denies the
words of Scripture by contradicting the Son of God. All he is
doing here is fighting against the word of God! More..
Chris: "the "temporary faith" of the stony ground hearer is not belief
at all."
But Jesus Christ says it is! Chris' controversy is not with me; it's
with the Son of God. More;
Chris: "Remember that "the infallible rule of interpretation of
Scripture is
the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the
true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one),
it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly."
Again Chris is correct by stating this Biblical principle of
interpretation, yet he violates it again and again. The words of the
Lord Jesus in Luke 8:13 do indeed conform to this principle as shown in
other passages that are in agreement with them, such as Hebrews 6:4ff
and 2Peter 2:20 - 22 Here's another...
John 6:66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked
no more with him.
Disciples are ~believers~; people who believe!
Chris Duncan's understanding of Scripture contradicts the words of
Messiah in Luke 8:13 as well as other passages in the New Testament.
Since this clearly violates the hermeneutical principle of Analogy of
Faith, his understanding must be rejected as false.
* * *
Marc Carpenter and his followers are in clear denial of the Scriptures
by denying the truth that there is such a thing as temporary belief.
Carpenter's false doctrine which says the unregenerate ~cannot~ believe
the truth is a result of his absolutizing the concept of "all" and
"whosoever" with respect to belief. The result is, according to Marc
Carpenter, everyone who believes is
ipso facto saved. This is the exact same mistake the Arminian makes
which results in his false doctrine the says Jesus Christ has died for
everyone in the entire human race. Marc Carpenter's hermeneutic is
patently Arminian whether he knows it or not. When he absolutizes the
concepts of "all" and "whosoever" he ends up having Scripture
contradict itself just as the Arminian does. I pointed this out to Marc
in the following;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one verse you cited either says,
or implies otherwise. [But they all magnify my own assurance and
confidence in the gospel! thank you.] This is because you are
committing the logical error of disregarding the Universe of Discourse.
This is easily demonstrated in the following way;
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one
man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed
upon all men, for that all have sinned:
P1; All men have sinned.
P2; Jesus was a man. TF
C1; Jesus sinned.
Many verses could be produced to
further illustrate this error; for example;
Ec 7:20 For there is not a
just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. To say
this includes Messiah is to disregard the Universe of Discourse within
the confines of the rest of the Bible. These vss cannot include
Messiah because we have direct statements elsewhere in Scripture that
he has no sin, was not a sinner, and never sinned. This is the exact
same scenario with the issue of unregenerates believing the gospel.
May I suggest... you need to do some more
'boning up' on logic.
All a is b does not
imply All b is a. This is logic 101 Marc.
All cats are mammals does not imply
All mammals are cats.
"All who are regenerate believe"
does not imply "All who believe are regenerate."
That's your mistake.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can read the e-mail in full here.
My words fell on deaf ears.
The technical term in logic for his
error is "Universe of Discourse" which is what Carpenter ignores, which
is the exact same error the Arminian makes. Carpenter's refusal to
acknowledge this principle causes him to deny the Scriptures and the
words of the Son of God.
This is reflected in Marc's following statements;
"The Bible
(especially 1 John) divides the world into believers and unbelievers.
Those who believe are saved, and those who do not believe are lost. The
following are some verses that show that belief of the gospel is only
performed by regenerate people and unbelief is only performed by
unregenerate people:"
Notice his use of the word "only". That means, according to him,
anybody who believes the truth is automatically saved. Again he says;
"The
Bible says that EVERYONE who BELIEVES the gospel has been born of God.
Not SOME -- EVERYONE. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for one not born of God to
BELIEVE the gospel." His caps.
The use of caps demonstrates Carpenter's Arminian hermeneutical error
of
absolutizing "everyone". The result; when he reads a verse like Luke
8:13 he must deny the words of Jesus Christ which is exactly what he
does. Notice his words;
"Jesus
said they believe for a time, yet they turn out to be unbelievers. Does
this prove that there are some unbelievers who believe the gospel, at
least for a time? Absolutely not. Jesus never said that they ever
believed the gospel."
Here Carpenter attempts to deny the truth taught by Christ, and his
attempt is both subtle and wicked! Notice he asks if the verse proves
that there are some ~UNbelievers~ who believe the Gospel. His
response.. Absolutely not... which response I would ~absolutely agree
with~! The reason is that Christ taught no such thing as an UNbelieving
believer! But Carpenter makes it look like it so he can "deny" it. This
is a straw man argument and is wicked. Carpenter had leveled the
accusation that this is what I believe but I believe no such thing!
When I pointed this out to him he said he "repented" of saying I
believe such a thing but obviously his "repentance" was a sham for here
he still levels the same accusation only he is sneaky and subtle about
it. Moreover it is easily proven that Messiah was teaching that the
stony-ground hearer did believe and what he believed was salvific,
which means it was sufficient to save which means it was Gospel. Read
it here. Carpenter tries to deny this by
saying there are "different kinds of belief" but his straw-grasping
does him no good because he still ends up denying the clear teaching of
the Son of God. Then when I show his error by confessing my own belief
in the true gospel while he thinks I am unregenerate, he simply denies
I believe the gospel! This is how this man operates. He's a 'Scripture
twister' who forces the Bible into his own mold wherever it suits him.
An example of this is his attempt to show the "heretical logic" of such
beliefs. Carpenter says...
*
Carpenter: "Consider the foolish and heretical logic if these beliefs
are taken to their logical, consistent conclusion:"
Acts
13:39: "And everyone believing in this One is justified from all things
which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses."
Carpenter: "Heretical logic: Everyone who
believes is justified. Some unregenerate people believe. Thus, some
unregenerate people are justified."
1
John 5:1: "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born
of God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the [one] who
has been born of Him."
Carpenter: "Heretical logic: Everyone who
believes has been born of God. Some unregenerate people believe. Thus,
some unregenerate people have been born of God."
*
Yet anyone can
see that this "heretical logic" is the result of ~his own false
doctrine~ which states that EVERYONE [his caps] who believes is
regenerate, saved, born of God etc. That's ~your~ logic Mr. Carpenter,
not mine!
The irony of it is that Mr. Carpenter thinks he is a man of integrity.
He challenges others to show that they are men of integrity, but when
the challenge is put to him, this is how he reacts. When I point out
his errors, Instead of admitting his mistake and doing the proper
thing any true Christian would do, he digs his heels in deeper and
stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the truth that so clearly witnesses
against him. This exposes the lengths this man will go to just to win
an argument and maintain his own cause. What hypocracy!
Marc Carpenter... you need to face your sin and truly repent!
. . . . . . . .
Marc Carpenter and his followers are denying the doctrine of plenary
verbal inspiration and
leveling an attack on the word of God. This is the theology of the
Liberals ladies & gentlemen whereby they make the Bible say
whatever they want to, usually to suit their own purposes.
It's the exact same
attack that Satan used to cause the fall; Questioning the exact
words God said. This is the root cause of all the sin in the world
including all the false doctrines and false gospels that are about in
our day. People simply do not believe what the Bible says! Mr
Carpenter and his friends demonstrate this here on this issue. They ~do
not believe~ the words of the Son of God. They ignore, twist and deny
the truth of the words of Messiah. Therefore they are on extremely
dangerous ground because the Son of God said;
Mt 4:4 But answering, He said, It has been written: "Man shall
not live by bread alone, but by *every* word going
out of the mouth of God." Deut. 8:3
Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered to him, saying, It has been written:
"Man shall not live on bread alone, but on *every* word of
God." Deut. 8:3
De 8:3 And He has humbled you, and caused you to hunger, and
caused
you to eat the manna, which you had not known, and your fathers had not
known, in order to cause you to know that man shall not live by bread
alone, but man shall live by *every word* that
proceeds from the mouth of
Jehovah.
And the Holy Spirit says;
Pr 30:6 Do not add to His words, that He not reprove you, and you
be found a liar.
Mr Carpenter and his followers are in clear violation of these
Scriptures. They are
stubborn in their refusal to
acknowledge the truth of Scripture in order that they might pronounce
men who show them their error to be "unregenerate". This is a wicked
practice and these men need to repent! If they do not then
there is no other choice but to have nothing to do with them. Otherwise
you share in their evil practice.
I freely admit of the sin I engaged in when I spoke against the
truth, which Mr
Carpenter has posted. Again I note that I have fully acknowledged my
sin to the Lord and repented of it. I have stated that to Mr Carpenter
and said that I would never say the things I said, nor do I believe
them. But you see folks, even though God clearly says; "if we confess
our sin He is
~faithful and just~ to forgive.." that's not good enough for Mr
Carpenter. Unless repentance meets his criteria of judgment he will
judge you unregenerate. This is how he operates and it is against the
Bible! The God of the Bible ~forgives~ sin and casts it behind His
back. Mr Carpenter's god ~bludgeons~ men with their sin! it allows him
to engage in his favorite pastime... to pronounce anyone who disagrees
with him to be 'unregenerate'.
Mr Carpenter's error is further seen in his following statement;
"A true believer will not believe the ANTITHESES to any of the
doctrines of grace."
Carpenter believes that a regenerate person will not 'confess a false
gospel'.
Note that he has absolutely no Biblical basis upon which to make such
statement... and in fact it is a matter of plain truth that the
Scriptures bear witness ~against~ such notions.
I have already shown this in 2 of my papers;
Say What You Mean; and
Tolerant
Calvinists Not Necessarily Unregenerate; neither
of which Mr Carpenter has made any attempt to address. These papers
deal with the book of Galatians which is a huge witness against Mr
Carpenter's false doctrine. Mr Carpenter of course has his own paper on
Galatians, which very conveniently twists things to his own purpose. In
his paper he claims that
~Sanctification~ is the ~ground of salvation~! Not only is it
unBiblical it is in opposition to his own claim that the ground of
salvation is the Atonement. This is the length he has to go to in order
to avoid the fantastic pressure of the book of Galatians that witnesses
against his false doctrine.
Mr Carpenter claims;
A regenerate person will not confess a false gospel; or confess the
antithesis of the gospel. Anybody who does is unregenerate.
But you see folks, Peter, Barnabas and the Galatians were doing exactly
what Mr Carpenter says a regenerate person cannot do. The Scriptures
clearly show that regenerate men can and do succumb to the sin of
tolerating false doctrine and false professors. When they are
confronted and repent, their repentance is a mark of life. Carpenter
rejects this and says that a regenerate person ~cannot~ commit such
sins, yet the book of Galatians alone is enough to expose him.
Furthermore it is obvious that the disciples, including Peter and the
other Apostles all denied and disbelieved the doctrine of the
resurrection of Messiah and yet were still regenerate, saved men. I
demonstrate this in this article. But
Carpenter rejects the testimony of the Holy Spirit and denies the word
of God because it finds him out. Carpenter
and his followers believe 'some' disciples were unregenerate when they
denied the resurrection. And
so he must
"reach back" in order to come up with his false view of the book of
Galatians. Otherwise he will have to backpedal and change his views and
repent of his sin, and it looks like at this point that that is
something he has no interest in doing!
Again I repeat; Marc Carpenter needs to acknowledge his sin and Repent.
Anybody who associates with him needs to bring this before him and urge
him to Repent. If he does not then he must be avoided. Anyone who
continues to hold religious fellowship with him shares in his sin.
Anything Mr Carpenter says, especially what he writes on his web site,
must be looked upon with great caution seeing as he is a man given to
lying when it suits him.
Ro 16:17 And brothers I exhort you to watch those making
divisions and causes of stumbling contrary to the doctrine which you
learned, and turn away from them.
Ro 16:18 For such ones do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but
their own belly, and by smooth speaking and flattering they deceive the
hearts of those without guile.
Mr. Carpenter, if you are a man of integrity you will acknowledge your
sin and repent.
To God alone be the glory.
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